Summary

Dee's Poole DNA Project & Allied Families, using lab FTDNA, Houston needs ?Berkshire, ENG birthplace & birthdate (c1609) of wealthy town miller, John Pooll/Pole/Poole verified. We have Y-DNA from 50+ Pool males, but we need birth and British & Welsh R1b-P312 Y-DNA with which to match (or distinguish away). Do any Brits or Celts know of John Poole the miller, d. 1667 of the town now known as Wakefield, Massachusetts (formerly Saugus >Lynn >Reading >South Reading, MA, USA). Please advise if your family lore includes this planter of northern Boston, Mass. USA area-please add your knowledge here so that this riddle can be solved! My trip to Reading, ENG a few years ago did not result in finding a record (Berkshire); could Reading's ancient cloisters (then in reconstruction) be a refuge & clue? Nor did an answer emerge at Kew Archives, or British Library, after considerable effort.After Y-DNA & autosomal tests, & years of research, it has been a costly exercise. Immigration,1629-31.Help

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Full Name:
John Poolle 1
Also known as:
John Poole 1
Edit
Quote:
planter 1
Occupation:
miller (several mills), glover, tanner 1
Religion:
did not join church in Reading, Mass (now Wakefield) USA 1
Race or Ethnicity:
caucasian, British 1
Category:
c1629 or c1630 immigrant but no record survived 1

Looking for more information about R-P312 British YDNA needed to match John Pooll(c1609 Berks? ENG/1667 Mass)?

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Was John Pooll [Poole,Pole,Pool] a 1629 old planter,Salem, Mass, USA? (speculation)

Salem, MA

The immigration of this man, the town miller, John Pooll (say c1609/1667) has disappeared from any and all surviving, extant records across America.  Most writers place him as a 1630 immigrant or a c1630 immigrant, but a factual emigration, immigration or other ship record is no where to be found. 

And perhaps tiny clues exist which place him as a 1629 immigrant, as opposed to a 1630 immigrant.  This one year difference may point to speculation on revised origins (i.e. either part of the "western men" of Devonshire area (??)  or part of the Lincolnshire/East Anglia/Suffolk (??) puritan emigrations (??) perhaps )... so yes, I have been trying to investigate the feasibility of 1629, or 1630, like many before me, whom have all now passed away.

Following author and postmaster, Clark Noble Pool's excellent summary, and book(unbound mss never formally published to the best of my knowledge), c1960s, among many earlier sources, the Saugus/Lynn/Reading/Wakefield Mass. USA town miller was:

the father of Captain Jonathan Pool, b. 1634/d. 1678 who was

the father of Lt. John Pool, b. 1665/d. 1721 who in turn was

the father of the British/English Army Surgeon, Dr. Thomas Pool (b.1708/d. 1741 Cartagena, Columbia (?), War of Jenkins Ear (Colonial Dames paperwork in progress to try to honor this patriot who gave his life).

Author, Clark Noble Pool's widow, Anna Lee Lathrop Poole sadly but peacefully died in her home, while naping, in Olney? southern Illinois, USA, c2011 (about age 90+ offhand) but her husband died of a heart attack while shoveling snow, c1968-offhand, so many years prior; Anna Lee who liked to be called "Gramma Pool" generously shared her and her husband's extensive research compiled over many years, with me.

Please comment on  my important, work in progress, longer, detailed Memorial Page on the British Army surgeon,c1740--- and various fold3/footnote.com spotlights I have made over many years on the confusion regarding similarly named men named Thomas Pool--  The correct family of the now known as the town of Wakefield, Mass. USA area (say c1636+) has an extensive and honorable long line of military service. Wakefield the town should celebrate its bloodline back through the Poole line more strongly.

Support for 1629 does seem to arise, but perhaps it is just because he seems elusively missing from 1630, Winthrop's group of ships/names known etc. . Could the  word "planter" Pool himself has inferred as "old planter, or original planter", implying one of the earliest settlers of Salem, although the old and new planters were all grouped together at some point, as described in one book I was reading at a library. It is unknown when he arrived, or from where he came.  

Perhaps, I will try to draft out some matters here, this year during 2012, if enough people write into this story line from Great Britain, Wales, Australia, NZ, et al, who can share facts from their end.  Thanks so much!  Its now your turn to write a story here...or make your own page, and link it....please add sources in square brackets...thanks!

Could John Pooll b. c1609, tie to 1610 North Moreton, ENG line? (geographic clue)

Reading, Berkshire, ENG

Was John Pooll, the wealthy miller/glover, born say 1608-1610, or is this premise that he was -- say age 21 -- upon a c1630 immigration, erroneous? Perhaps the proof of his age, if any, needs to be revisited. The knowledgeable male librarian at The Wisconsin Historical Society suggested that for him to have been awarded the responsibility of being the town miller, perhaps viewing him as an accomplished craftsman--with knowledge from the old country may be fruitful. In my recent readings, one inference was that he actually was a more mature man, more established in his trade, and as such was unlikely to be a young man of little expertise.  I do not know if this simple, new twist, of the miller, and leather worker/glover, with probably equipment, and supposedly with servants and funds being say ?? ten yrs older would add new avenues to find his true heritage.

Hopefully most of you have read writings I have tried creating over the past six years or so, on this line...Once, a man named Ron  from Wales (birthplace) wrote me, but I was never able to reach him back--so please do write again!

And was John Pooll really born in Reading England in Berkshire--or did somehow ancient Redding in Massachusetts get entwined somehow into Reading, ENG?  Also could Chapney/Campium/Champion et al have instead been of the area, i.e. Margaret's female line, rather than the male line...

The Poole line answer did not come up on my trip to Reading, ENG -- I tried the microfilm there, et al, without discerning answers.  I did take some pics of the microfilm of the one c1638/39 marriage (John Pool and Johanna offhand...) given that some papers which I had bought referenced this one (perhaps NEGHS/Greenlaw papers?)- some of the ENG film was impossible to read, if I am realling that trip--printer issues too there so...I never did decipher my research found.

Or could Reading, ENG be correct, but instead Wiltshire, ENG (rather than Berkshire) which is very close by...I did not have time to check in Wiltshire official repositories. Has anyone pursued Wilts?

Know that De la Pole was to be my lineage, but I did learn on my trip that the British sources declared no males survived, at some early generation...but could they have covertly hidden away- many generations- to preserve their life - as suggested by some.

 

 PART II: North Moreton, Berkshire had a family of Pooles- Anyone know this Moreton family of Pole Pool Poole?

So, looking in Berkshire outside of, but near Reading...here is one (random/speculative only) 1610 record in LDS:

" Name: John Poole Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: May 1610 Baptism/Christening Place: NORTH MORETON,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND Birth Date: Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: Richard Poole Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01890-2 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 88323 Reference Number" [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J386-BDM] Citation: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, "FamilySearch" ([1]). Index based on the International Genealogical Index, Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah. FHL digital index. Family History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah.

 What is known about this North Moreton, ENG family, Richard Poole >  John Poole, born abt May 1610?  There are lots in this batch number with names like Thomas, William, Richard, Nicholas...Berkshire ENG.

 

Here is one Richard-I do not have any research on these Moreton lines...do you?

Name: Richard Poole Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 14 Aug 1592 Baptism/Christening Place: NORTH MORETON,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND xx         Father's Name: Thomas Poole Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01890-2 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 88323

Note that Reading and North Moreton, Oxfordshire, seem to be about 17 miles apart.

 

OTHER CLUES- SPECULATIVE RESEARCH ONLY- AS TO WHETHER ANY RECORDS EXIST IN UK FOR A JOHN POOL (??)

In 1611:

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for John Poell

 Name: John Poell Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 08 Nov 1611 Baptism/Christening Place: HAMPSTEAD NORRIS,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND             Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01899-2 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 88298 Reference Number:

 UNDOCUMENTED: I ran into one Internet Archive book coming down this line, which threw out a birthdate for one John Pool/Poole in 1608--and said that was the John the miller's birthdate...but I could not discern any sources. I am not sure whether I even saved this mention, given the lack of sources...

 Many errors exist due to defective, unsupported, trees (long ago, unrelated lines were randomly merged together when ancestry.com and others launched its trees--so think of families mashed together by a computer/ person, if a man's name was similar or for other profit-motive reasons? which has fouled up many many lines. Caution.

Pooles of Cockham, Maidenhead,No Moreton, Berks Records Office-clues?

Reading, Berkshire, ENG

 Given that my old Mac G5 has died, I am unsure if I even have all of my old notes from my Poole surname research in Reading, Berkshire, England.  It was a very costly trip in an attempt to find an answer to John Pooll's roots-- I did not find an answer.  Nor could I decipher what I did find ...but perhaps the technology will someday advance, and the next generation of Poole researchers will be able to piece together some clues. Perhaps finding out what I knew after that trip would be a good place to start- again- so...

This Word document which I typed, I entitled "Poole of Reading Research3".  This file states:

"Reading, Berkshire Records Off-

 Towns:

 Cockham, Berkshire

 1610  George POOLE

 Margaret POOLE makes provision for poor in her will, for Poor of Cockham

 

 Maidenhead, Berkshire

 1603  Robert POOLE Junior

 1633  John POOLE, admin

 1639 Johannis POOLE, wife Margaret- quite wealthy since filed with perog court of Cantebury also

 

North Moreton, Berkshire

 1598  Richard POOLE

 1622            Richard POOLE, Adminstration, Microfilm

 

 1640  Thomas POOLE

  [see notes on the back of sheet written at Berks Rec Off]

 

 Then we have POOLEs in three ancient parish records

 Ancient Parish of St. Giles, Reading, Berkshire

 

[end of this draft working document, obviously left incomplete....]

 

I feel sure there are international researchers who are well aware of these Poole lines--please write down any clues and transmit somehow....Thanks!

 

 

Did John Poole descend from a brother of Earl of Lincoln?

England

Did the wealthy miller/glover descend from a brother of the Earl of Lincoln, England?  Perhaps this is the question most often asked.  Then this assumption is to somehow lead us back to the "De la Pole" line, whichever one of several.  It seems that I have addressed this so many times over the years that I surely have some prior writings on the matter...

But I pause to write this since today I am looking at a hard copy page [probably from Illinois postmaster Clark Noble Pool mss]in my boxes which again mention "A genealogy of John Poole" by Gilbert Brown, LL.D.  The source here is given as p11, "Ancient Redding in Mass. Bay Colony" by Loea Parker Howard [the first name here is slightly off].  Following this, author Howard cited to author Brown who wrote "that he was a descendant of a brother of the Earl of Lincoln, and gives an account of his very distinguished ancestors." 

Going to worldcat this week, online, to once again check for that mss of Gilbert Patten Brown, I saw that the New York Pub Lib. is still (2013) the only library that lists Brown's mss; details show a 4 page folio, I think, but then that catalog number given to it, fails to show up.  So, this is odd--wonder if it is missing or ?  One Gilbert Patten Brown showed up on findagrave.com as dying in Maine so this enlightenment seems to tie him into the Samuel Hale Poole line of Maine.  This Samuel Hale Poole line used to be the one which seemed to have inherited the early family papers--if I am recalling my old research correctly.

Perhaps I dont have a copy of the 4 page mss, but I hope the NYPL does.

 

Dee's Geography Notes from Berkshire Records Office,Reading ENG, c2009

Reading, Berkshire, ENG

 [This is my, Dee’s, say 2009, file named “Notes from Berkshire Rec Office.doc” on my MacBook Pro. From my research trip, c2009]

 To be three ancient parishes in Reading—St Giles, St Laurence’s and St Mary’s. But the one lady said that Caversham was outside of this area, so this fell into a different geographic boundary…was that Wiltshire?

 At Berkshire Record Office, 9 Coley Ave, Reading— [this is where I was writing notes]

 Binfield is in Forest, the area next to Reading, and south of Maidenhead- Binfield is north east of Wokingham.  But this survey map, 1866-83 could have different boundaries than in 1600. [Note that the first name of Forest was used for a son in my Poole family, several generations back; this boy died young and was greatly mourned by the family. Forest Poole, offhand, was the son of James Poole and wife Emily Cilley Poole, buried at Bevis Cedar Grove Cemetery, Colerain Township, Hamilton Co, OH-- some entries I have made at findagrave.com]

 Then we have a town named Reading, and a large area also named Reading.    Mortimer is in the larger area named Reading. On one map entitled Reading-medieval features, GGA ’77 (mapmaker)—St Giles Church is shown over on Wood Street—not on London Street, closer to the old Mill—so maybe the very old map I viewed had them at different junctions—So St. Giles Parish is an entire geographic section as well as the name of a church.—The Henry POOL extended family in the church register seems to be of this St. Giles Parish.

 Also an area called London Ward north of St Giles Parish—

 [map Parishes and Ward Reading c1800]

 In Ordnance Survey of Eng, map, Berkshire index to the plans of Reading, St Giles Church shows up in the middle of XXXVII 3.18 and XXXVII 3.19.

 Another map, Berkshire Parishes transferred to Oxfordshire 1974—Caversham is not included in being transferred out to Oxfordshire 1974—

The larger geographic area called Reading is called a Hundred—Reading Hundred is marked VIII, on map entited 282,080

 St Nicholas Hurst is the name of an area in between Reading and Binfield—

 Moreton is listed as a hundred.

 

 

 Catalogue ref for the POOLE images shot include:

208/28

208/64

104/141a

208/28

104/230a

106/99a

A1/16 – John POOLE 1639 with wife Margaret

[end of file]

 

Also notice I have a very small file, whateman poole.docx  that states: Notes from Berkshire Record Office-

 1558  POLE or POOLE als. WHATEMAN, John, Binfield, D.202

 [entry from ________ ]

 I remember finding this very interesting since it gave an alias for a Pole/Poole of a different surname--which often provides excellent clues when YDNA matches, say between Poole and Waterman/Waitman/Whateman or variations.  Does anyone have such matches...

 

 

 

Dee's Poole family research notes from Berkshire Family Hist Society Reading ENG

Reading, Berkshire, ENG

[This is a continuation of an attempt to find my-Dee's- old files when I was researching in Reading, Berkshire, ENG--so this looks like I was at The Berkshire Hist Society, Reading] Gillian Stevens is the kind volunteer who was of great help on the 2nd night—

 Quidhampton—2 miles west of Salisbury— Fugglestone St. Peter’s, parish [as per Gillian Stevens, Berks FHS who used to live in salisbury]

 On pg 77, Fugglestone, St Peter [1,818 a] is listed on pg entitled Froxfield and Milton Lilborne- other names mentioned are BATTEN, HAWES, JEFFREY, Wm HOLMES, WHITMARSH, GIBBS; Rev John HOPKINS, Eastman, COXE

 [book given by Cliff and Jean Debney, 8 Huckleberry Close, Purley on Thames, Reading Berks RG8 8EH  tel—0734 413223 – this is volunteer couple who helped me the first night—

 [bk entitled Abst of Wiltshire Inclosure Awards and Agreements, Edit by RE Sandell, Devizes, 1971]

 In same bk—pg 15-16—has Wm POOL, Thomas POOLE, Richard POOL- Ashton Keynes – but this seems to be way late- 1778- am out of time-

 

Book entitled Two Taxation Lists 1545 & 1576—

 A Thomas POLL is listed in section with a Rycharde DEVERELL, Johann WYLLYS, Edward MEADE, etc—under Wynselye and Stoke [pg 75]

 Pg 52, John POLE in Rodbourne (section) with WATERS PEN ALEXANDER GALE BOX FRYE MALERD etc [1576 yr]

 Pg 141, John POOLE with LAMBE, MARKES, BOWCHER, YELWEY—under The Tething of Cowlston [1576 tax payer yr—list]

 Pg 49, Edwarde POOLE esquire (L) listed with BLANDEFORDE SPARROWE Wm HALL, JONES , WYMANN- in section called POOLE (geographic area)—[yr is 1576]

 (more)

 (only partial names typed here—not complete list)

 Pg 139, Peter POOLE listed sect “The Tething of Semyngton and Litelton”, with SMYTHE, MAGGES, DRYNCKWATER, LONGETHOMGER [1576 yr]

 

BREAKTHROUGH: Could John POOLE the miller come from the miller family in Quidhampton?

 Nicholas POOLE, a fulling miller, 1577

 In Quidhampton, Mill, Wiltshire – abt 45 mis west of Reading

 [source: index collected and maintained by Tom Hine, about 70s yrs old, of Berks FHS; Gillian Stevens called Tom Hine, and he checked his database and called Gillian back this very night- his database is just on Mills and Millers- this Nicholas was his only entry with a POOL surname] [Dee’s Note that this Wiltshire may be a clue—see POOLE article re Gloucester and Wiltshire from Brit Lib]

 

Minutes of Proceedings in Sessions, 1563, “Wiltshire Archaeological and Natural Hist Soc”  Records Branch, Vol IV, For the Year 1948”

  Section entitled “Survey of the Poor in St. Martin’s Parish c1635.” – [St Martin’s Parish is on southwest part of Salisbury, as per Gillian Stevens, the granddaughter of Miss BLOFIELD or BLOFELD (who became her grandmother)—Gillian runs the BLOFIELD/BLOFELD/BLAUVELT DNA project, www.familytreedna.com

 I explained to Gillian to add the Blauvelts to her Blofelds—and Dutch leanings re NJ lines

 Many entries in this bk—lack time to get them all—

 

[Wiltshire Co Rec, Min of Sessions]

1591- Henry Poole, with an Ed LUDLOWE—judges, etc.

 pg. 33- Pro pace.  Thomas POOLE of Lydearde Millicent, yeoman, bound in Iol, and his sureties, Henry WODROFF of Lyman and Thomas MORREYS of Pewsey, et al [citing to pg 106, Epiphany Sessions 1578]

 pg 138- Henry POOLE, esquire [citing to pg 288, Michaelmas Sessions 1590]

 pg 138, William POOLE, lawsuit—also mentions John Smyth of Staunton Barnard—this under sect St Thomas Sessions 1590--

 ---

 On pg 81, page ent The Poor—a Stephen POOLE with 2 children—living on Ivey Street [book entitled Poverty in Early-Stuart Salisbury, by Paul Slack, Devizes, 1975

 24 March 2009- Back at Berks FHS—the kind lady (Jocie McBride) who is doing the arduous transcribing of St. Lawrence, Reading ENG baptismal records, allowed me to peruse her working draft of her initial transcriptions for the baptisms c1595-1612—during that perusal, with both of us looking at each name on the screen, not a single POOLE, POOL, de la POLE emerged.  So this church, St. Lawrence, will be concluded as not a viable candidate for the parents of John POOL (b. c. 1609) and presumably baptized.  At the point that she concludes her work, a CD of this church will become available for purchase as well…

 This same volunteer, Mrs. Jocie McBride, who explained that St. Giles was a working man’s church—and so the POOLE family there were most likely hard laborers, on the “blue collar” side-  So the laborers workshipping  there were definitely not monied, or “wealthy” so this information renders it unlikely that John Pool, miller, who apparently possessed both servants and money in Massachusettes would have worshipped at St. Giles parish, Reading, Berkshire, ENG.

 On pg 160, page entitled The Churchwardens Accounts, Edward POOLE and Robert JAMES are listed as Surveyours of the highways; the date is 1639-1640, while the other names listed are Walter FELLOW and Wm GANDY (churchwardens), et al.  [a book, The Churchwardens’ Accounts of the Parish of St. Mary’s, Reading, Berks, 1550-1662.  Transcribed by Francis N.A. Garry, M.A. and A.G. GARRY.  Reading: Printed by Edw J Blackwell, London St. 1893.]

 

 

 Google notes— [re Nicholas Poole of Quidhampton Mill, a miller or Giles Poole?]

 A History of Wiltshire: edited by R. B. Pugh and Elizabeth Crittall  by Ralph Bernard Pugh, Elizabeth Crittall, D. A. Crowley, University of London. Institute of Historical Research - Wiltshire (England) - 1953

 8d.89 Just over twenty years later Quidhampton Mill was used as a fulling mill, and was leased by Nicholas Poole at a rent of 65$. 8d. ..

 A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain ... - Page 1056 by John Burke, Bernard Burke - Great Britain - 1840- By this lady Sir Leonard was father of SIR GILES POOLE, ...

 Gloucestershire Notes and Queries: An Illustrated Quarterly Magazine Devoted ... - Page 32 Gloucestershire (England) - 1890

 Was he akin to the Pooles of Pauntley, Gloucestershire, two of whom, Sir Giles Poole and his son, Sir Henry, were members for the county temp. ...

 The House of Commons, 1558-1603 : Members, M-Z.: The House of Commons, 1558-1603 - Page 232

by P. W. Hasler - History - 1981 - 1894 pages - 1 vii. ist s. of Sir Giles Poole* by his ist w. educ. .... remains unidentified , though he may have belonged to the Pooles of Sapperton, Sir Giles Poole' ...

 

The Gloucestershire Gentry - Page 51 by Joan Johnson - Gentry - 1989 - 269 pages... meanwhile Sir William Kingston had been succeeded by his son Arnold, Sir Giles Poole by his son Henry, Sir Nicholas Poyntz by his son John and Sir John

 (above notes re Giles Poole—as to whether play on words of St Giles and Poole but timing might not-or is not right)

 

 

ST MARY’S CD— [this may be CD which I purchased from them]

 Has POORE with an r- Then on og 51— but POOREs also seem to be around later—so POORE

 Marie, d. of John and Hanna POOLE  Bapt 24 Aug 1637---

 

Edward son of Edward POOLE

 July 17 1639

 Sarah daughter of Edward and Hannah POOLE

 Aug 14 1640

 

 ST GILES READING—MANUAL POOL SEARCHES

 Henry POOLE- 1598

 1603- Griffin Muntigue--- re MONTIGUE?

 Jan 19, 1605- baptiz- Henry POOLE

 Were these above two in this CD or a different one--recheck

 

6 Dec 1607     Barnard POOLE

 24 Sept 1609    Will. POLE   (this one says POLE not POOLE)

 24 Feb 1611  Francis POOLE  bapt

 30 May 1614   Phillip POOLE

 (nearby names in baptism registry incl COLEMAN, BRISTOWE UNDERWOOD POCOCKE)

 

________1629      Barberie POOLE daught of Henrie

28 Jan 1631  Henrie POOLE son of Henrie

 

1635 Marriage-

 Wm Smith and Phillis POOLE

 28 Jan 1635

 Henry POOLE- 1598

 1603- Griffin Muntigue--- re MONTIGUE?

 Jan 19, 1605- baptiz- Henry POOLE

 Wm son of Henrie POOLE- 29 Jan 1644 bapt

 Jane daught of Henrie POOLE 26 Nov 1644 bapt

 Nov 2 1667- Richard son of Richard and Debra POOLE (BRO Ref D/P 96/1/4) bapt p 257

 29 Sept 1667, Henry son of Henry & Sybill POOLE baptsm same page as above

 

[end of Dee's file entitled St_Giles_Reading-Manual_Pool_Searches.doc on MacBook Pro, cMar 2009; Poole DNA Project]

 

 

 

 

 

YDNA from John Poole in Poole DNA Project & Allied Families colorful matrix, purple group

Cincinnati, OH

Are researchers viewing the YDNA matrix?  Recently several Poole males whom I have phoned to follow up on their inqueries, said they had not even seen it.  So perhaps some basic info will need to be added out here...

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